Discussion:Nur Devlet Giray
Dernier commentaire : il y a 12 ans par Sardur
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Sorry for writing in Enlish, I don't understand French. The name of this article is to be Nur Devlet. Haci Ier Giray had 8 sons, but only one of them - Mengli Ier Giray had added his fathers' name "Giray" to his own name Mengli. Nobody of the other seven sons neither Hayder, nor Nur Devlet had added "Giray" to their names. Don Alessandro (d) 8 septembre 2012 à 18:42 (CEST)
- You may be right, but can you give references for this statement ? Dalriada (d) 8 septembre 2012 à 19:13 (CEST)
- Unfortunately in Russian only. E.g. Oleksa Haiworonski's "A constellation of Girays" (Гайворонский А. Созвездие Гераев. Симферополь, 2003 (ISBN 966-8295-31-5)) and "Lords of the two continents" (Гайворонский О. Повелители двух материков. Киев-Бахчисарай, 2007ю (ISBN 978-966-96917-1-2)). This info can also be found in English at Haiworoski's site about the Bakchisaray khan palace. Don Alessandro (d) 8 septembre 2012 à 19:45 (CEST)
- First of all, if you don't understand French, why do you even bother to mingle into WP:fr?
- This is certainly not the only encyclopedic « Nur Devlet », so we need an unambiguous title. But it doesn't help anybody to explain in the article all the details about its name.
- Sardur - allo ? 9 septembre 2012 à 01:50 (CEST)
- *First of all, if you don't understand French, why do you even bother to mingle into WP:fr?
- Because I have seen iwiki bot in Rissian wikipedia adding link to an incorrect French name.
- *This is certainly not the only encyclopedic « Nur Devlet », so we need an unambiguous title.
- The only one. If you know any other, please give a link. Even if there is one more, why should we make disambuguation using an incorrect name? If there is an other Nur Devlet this article is to be named Nur Devlet (khan de Crimée), Nur Devlet (fil de Haci Ier Giray) or something like this.
- Don Alessandro (d) 9 septembre 2012 à 15:49 (CEST)
- You didn't get my first question, so I will reformulate it: as you don't understand French, what makes you believe you're able to contribute to WP:fr?
- Is « Nur Devlet » such a common name?
- You write that it's an uncorrect name, but there are some sources usint it.
- And the two titles you suggest are not suitable (too long, for instance).
- Sardur - allo ? 9 septembre 2012 à 22:29 (CEST)
- Certainly I am able to contribute here in a very limited way such as correcting iwikis etc. By the way, why don't you ask all of them why do they think they are able to contribute to WP:fr?
- You can simply ask Google if it knows any other Nur Devlet (no matter encyclopedic or not). If you find any, please give us a link.
- *You write that it's an uncorrect name, but there are some sources usint it.
- Yes, there are few books using an incorrect name. So, what? There are much more sources using correct one, and even more - there are sources explaining that adding Giray to his mane is incorrect.
- *And the two titles you suggest are not suitable (too long, for instance).
- What do you mean saying "not suitable"? As far as I can see titles such as Alexandre (empereur byzantin), Louis IV de Wurtemberg or Ahmed de la Horde d'Or are quite suiatable here.
- Don Alessandro (d) 10 septembre 2012 à 20:53 (CEST)
- Your last question just answers why you're not able to contribute here (and I'm of course not talking about interwikis).
- You know that your opinion is not just enough, don't you? If these authors are wrong, you need other authors stating that they are wrong — otherwise these are just two points of view, which need to be mentioned in the article, with proper attribution and weight.
- Et enfin, rien ne m'oblige à faire l'effort d'écrire en anglais.
- Sardur - allo ? 10 septembre 2012 à 22:09 (CEST)
- My goal here is to make Wikipedia better. I hope your goal is the same. I can go away and let this and other mistakes (e.g. this one) be as they are. But I want to improve our ecyclopedia, that is why I am here and that is why I'm trying here to explain the situation in English. I'm not obliged, too, as you are not.
- There IS a reliable source stating that they are wrong. Гайворонский А. Созвездие Гераев. Симферополь, 2003. (ISBN 966-8295-31-5) Page 105. I can provide you translation from Russian, if you need.
- It will be very nice of you to explain the difference between Alexandre (empereur byzantin) and Nur Devlet (khan de Crimée). You are not obliged, of course, but in will be nice. But any way, we don't need any specifications in brackets, because there is only one Nur Devlet of ecyclopedic significance.
- Don Alessandro (d) 11 septembre 2012 à 00:05 (CEST)
- Does this book mention that the 4 sources are wrong, or that calling him "Giray" is wrong? That would of course be quite different.
- According to the Byzantine Project, Alexandre (empereur byzantin) should be renamed (they agreed not to use « (empereur byzantin) » anymore); and according to our conventions, a title should be the shortest possible.
- Sardur - allo ? 11 septembre 2012 à 07:26 (CEST)